Countering the “birther” movements claims

Since the start of the primaries, Barack Obama has been the recipient of much scrutiny concerning his birth certificate.  Most of you have heard the arguments the his birth certificate was forged, he wasn’t born in Hawaii, etc. and at times it gets wearying trying to keep up with the claims and spending the time doing the research to counter those claims.  Barga, who comments here at Mountain Sage and who has his own blog, Whalertly, approached me about a joint project.  We have started a clearing house, so to speak, of the claims the birthers make and the answers we have found after doing much research.

By collaborating, Barga and I each bring our own take on the claims and we hope that our work will save you the work of spending hours researching what has already been researched.  Be assured that we have sourced our answers.

It is our goal to be the most comprehensive site on the Internet for information on Barack Obama’s birth certificate and eligibility for the office of President.

Not all of the claims presented on the website have been answered.  Barga and I are working on them.  We hope that anyone who has input with claims we have not seen or answers we have not considered will fill out the form found on that page and share information with us.  It will be helpful if you source the claim or answer.

Each claim that we have to date is presented in the format on the screen shot below.  NOTE:  THIS IS A SCREEN SHOT ONLY.  THE ANSWERS ARE NOT EXPANDABLE.  YOU MUST GO TO Anti-Birthers Cove TO USE THE EXPANDABLE CLAIM AND ANSWER FORMAT.

8-8-2009 11-57-24 PM

When you click on the teal colored text  of the claim the text will expand to give you the answer we are presenting.  It’s actually pretty cool.

So, please check it out.  You can find the claims and answers at:  Anti-Birther’s Cove | Whalertly.

Please send the link to anyone you know who may be interested.  And as always, thanks for reading Mountain Sage Blog.  I appreciate your time and your comments.

Sage

Some people seem to be having trouble with the page so here is what we have as of now:

Claim: Obama was not born in the United States, specifically Hawaii, and the birth certificate he posted on the Internet is a fake, and not the long form birth certificate.
Answer From Sage:
Obama released his Hawaii birth certificate in June 2008 and almost immediately birthers claimed that it was a forgery. These “experts” never saw or handled the original BC, but instead used a jpeg of a scanned document to do their analysis. Anyone who has ever worked with a scanner and photos knows that a scanner only picks up a certain amount of details, depending on the quality of the original, and the quality of the scanner. Nobody who has actually seen the original has deemed it a fake.

As for the “long form” birth certificate, an official of the State of Hawaii has certified that the form is in the vault and the short form is an accurate representation of the long form.
“Our Certificate of Live Birth is the standard form, which was modeled after national standards that are acceptable by federal agencies and organizations,” Okubo told the Honolulu Advertiser. “With that form, you can get your passport or your soccer registration or your driver’s license.”

I daresay most of us do not possess our long form birth certificate – I know I don’t. And in fact the form with footprints etc. are actually a keepsake, not a legal copy.. The shorter version is accepted as proof of citizenship by federal and state agencies:

“Often, people don’t realize that what they consider their official birth certificate is not actually a legal document. The copy given to new parents at the hospital, sometimes with the baby’s footprints on it, is meant to be a cherished keepsake but is not valid for official proof of identity. Your original birth certificate must remain on file at the designated vital records agency office of your birth place after being submitted for registration by the attending hospital. This is where the only “original” copy of your birth record is located. This version is kept under lock and key and most people will never see their original. This is done to help ensure your identity is protected. For purposes of official business you’ll want to obtain a certified (raised seal) birth certificate from the department of public health or vital records office where the birth took place. This is also often described as an “official” copy.”
(from Article Base)

On July 28, 2009 Fox News ran the following story:
“State officials in Hawaii on Monday said they have once again checked and confirmed that President Barack Obama was born in Hawaii and is a natural-born American citizen, and therefore meets a key constitutional requirement for being president.”

Claim: Why will Obama not release his long-form Birth Certificate?

Answer From Sage:
Remember, the release of his Certificate of Live Birth that kicked off all of the forgery claims. Why would Obama open up that can of worms again? Can anyone who questions the birth certificate he already has posted online honestly say they would accept a long form birth certificate posted online as genuine? I think that if we are being honest, we know that another birth certificate being released would simply start the process all over again. Why should the President of the United States continue to give credence to a conspiracy theory? He released the birth certificate that is considered proof of citizenship already. If that is good enough to satisfy federal and state agencies, then it should be good enough for the Internet “experts”.

Claim: A Kenyan Birth Certificate shows that Obama was born in Kenya.

Answer from Daily KOS
Recently, World Net Daily released what they claimed to be the birth certificate of President Obama, and it was from Kenya. Almost immediately, people on the Internet were able to show that the certificate was clearly a falsehood:

“First, the hospital is Coast Provincial General Hospital (sometimes said to be Coast Province General Hospital), not Coast General Hospital.
Second, Kenya was a Dominion the date this certificate was allegedly issued and would not become a republic for 8 months.
Third, Mombasa belonged to Zanzibar when Obama was born, not Kenya.
Fourth, Obama’s father’s village would be nearer to Nairobi, not Mombasa.
Fifth, the number 47O44– 47 is Obama’s age when he became president, followed by the letter O (not a zero) followed by 44–he is the 44th president.
Sixth, EF Lavender is a laundry detergent.
Seventh, would a nation with a large number of Muslims actually say “Christian name” (as opposed to name) on the birth certificate?
Eighth, his father (born in 1961) would have been 24 or 25 when he was born and not 26.
Ninth, it was called the “Central Nyanza District,” not Nyanza Province. The regions were changed to provinces in 1970.”

While these are just some of the things that throw the certificate into question, there are dozens more little details that cause one to wonder on the legitimacy of this claimed Kenyan certificate. Clearly, the Birth Certificate from WND is a fake.

Claim: Ghana paper calls Africa ‘continent of Obama’s birth’

Answer From Barga
World Net Daily has recently claimed that a newspaper from Ghana indicates that Africa is the continent of Obama’s birth. Looking at this, you must remember how African’s consider their heritage and nationality, and how literal reading does not work in this story. Africans consider their heritage to be the birthplace of their fathers, as that is how their tribal system works. They are saying that Obama is of the tribe in Kenya, not was literally born there.

Claim: The birth announcement in the Honolulu newspaper could have been planted by the Obamas, and therefore is not legitimate.

Answer From Barga
On August 4, 1961, the Honolulu Advertiser and the Star Bulletin both contained an announcement stating that Barack Obama had been born. Many birthers have claimed that this announcement is either false, or was planned to mislead us. This is an interesting claim, as it requires the assumption that there is a 40+ year-old conspiracy afoot just to get Obama elected president. While we have no way of proving that the announcement was not, in fact, a scam, we are able to assume it was not. The concept of a conspiracy that large, specifically at a time when it was thought that blacks could NEVER become president, simply is outside the realm of logic. Anything of this sort is not only inconceivable, but illogical.

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49 Responses to Countering the “birther” movements claims

  1. barga says:

    Thanks sage, i hope we continue to work amazingly well together, and I hope that together, we can make a difference

    Sage Reply:

    Thanks for thinking of it and of me to be part of it.

    I’ll work on some more answers tomorrow or Monday.

  2. AliSilver says:

    HAHAHAAAAAAAAA<< The founding fathers intended only offspring of male citizens to be eligible for Pres???? That is the first time I've ever even HEARD that one! LOOOOOOOOOL!
    That's a hoot ! :)

    Alessandro Machi Reply:

    It also makes no sense the way it is worded.

    The BEHAVIOR and ALLEGIANCE of the MALE FATHER can supercede the status of a natural born citizen, is how that should be worded.

    barga Reply:

    but it isn’t how it is worded, and the constitution, as writen and amended, trumps what you think it should be

  3. Wizcon says:

    A woman alone was not a good thing to be back then. Maybe this is why the Daughters of the American Revolutions was formed.
    Here is the eligibility requirements
    “Any woman is eligible for membership who is no less than eighteen years of age and can prove lineal, blood line descent from an ancestor who aided in achieving American independence. She must provide documentation for each statement of birth, marriage, and death.”

    Sage Reply:

    Have you ever seen the applications for the Daughters of the American Revolution? I was encouraged to fill one out and join but the application process was a pain in the butt. I really wasn’t that interested in belonging but could have if I wanted to spend enough time getting the documentation for my great, great, (I don’t know how many greats) grandfather who fought in the revolution. I was also encouraged to join the Daughters of the Confederacy and while I had a qualifying ancestor I just wasn’t interested in that at all.

  4. AliSilver says:

    SAGE,,, I found a super funny. I’ts not too long, but I gotta post it here. Hilarious stuff. Dr. TorlyTootzi,, wtf ever her name is.

  5. AliSilver says:

    Debunking Obama’s Thugs In The Media
    By Orly Taitz, Esq
    8-5-9

    Recently Obama’s thugs in main stream media came up with this Bomford report in order to stop my efforts in exposing and prosecuting Obama. Though typically I don’t have time to waste on each and every dumb obot, since it got to National TV and my children”s friends called my children, I’ll spend a few minutes to debunk the obots:

    1. Kenya became an independant country in 1963, not 1964. The seal of Kenya was correct.

    2. More then one person had certified copies of this document.

    3. the document was not issued at birth, but rather was a certified copy obatained in1964, when Kenya became independent

    4. The documents from that time would not show Zanzibar, but rather Kenya

    5. Bomford report was created to try to discredit my efforts

    6.lastly, I am not supposed to waste my time and money on this issue, Obama us the one who is supposed to provide evidence of legitimacy

    7. Kenyan BC provides more info than the piece of garbage Obama posted on the n et, which doesn’t have the name of the hospital, name of the doctor or signatures.
    8. Chioumi Fukino and Obama and all their Nazi Brown Shirts in the main stream media need to give it a rest and provide an original hospital BC and the corresponding big thick hospital Birthing file from the Kapiolani hospital. If they don’t have such a file, all of them need to resign immediately or they will be prosecuted for massive fraud and treason to this Nation. (in case you didn’t know, treason carries punishment of life in prison or death penalty).
    …………………………………………………..
    …………………………………………………..

    My comments added below.

    If you read her DEBUNKING comments 1
    1. Kenya became an independant country in 1963, not 1964. The seal of Kenya was correct.
    and 3
    3. the document was not issued at birth, but rather was a certified copy obatained in1964, when Kenya became independent

    If you read them backwards, forwards, upside down, in the dark or by moonlight……… Is it just me, or do they say the exact OPPOSITE thing…….. :D kaching!

    Sage Reply:

    I think Orly is missing the point. The birth certificate is fake. She can twist it, turn it and stand on her head but the fact is it’s a fake. And as a lawyer, she should no better than to go into court with something she didn’t have authenticated. The whole thing was thrown out of court on procedure. She didn’t even put her bar association number on her filings. Orly is incompetent and a kook.

  6. AliSilver says:

    The answers to your claims above are not working on my pc. :(
    When I click it Ijust get the same green text CLAIMS on anothe page :’(

    Sage Reply:

    What browser are you using?

    Wizcon Reply:

    Doing that for me too. I went to Barga’s and read them, I have been having so much trouble lately with error messages that I didn’t say anything. Thought it was something on my end.

    Sage Reply:

    Wizcon, what browser are you using?

    barga Reply:

    what is happening?

    Sage Reply:

    That’s just a screenshot Ali. The expandable text is at Whalertly at the link above.

    AliSilver Reply:

    DOH :%

    barga Reply:

    are you on the right site or are you on the main page? THe main page is a SS, the other site should work
    let me know if it still doesnt

  7. kert says:

    Ah, Sage, I am so disappointed. I thought maybe I would finally find the answer to the question, “why won’t he release the long form?” But no such luck. No answer. Just a bunch of questions.

    Really, the better question is, “Why has Obama spent $800,000 fighting the release of the long form version of his birth certificate?”

    To answer the questions presented in your answer, I suggest that Obama should release his long form for the following reasons: (1) He promised transparency in his government and by not releasing it he appears to be hiding something. It just looks bad. (2) He has racked up over $800,000 in legal fees fighting the release and that kind of money would buy Michelle a lot of designer tennis shoes and transcontinental dinner dates; and (3) If he released his long form, it would provide libs with even more ammunition to label those questioning his citizenship as “crazy”.

    Sage Reply:

    The state of Hawaii says the long form is in the vault and the short form is what everyone uses. I don’t have a long form birth certificate.

    Why should Obama legitimize a bunch of bullies? He presented the birth certificate that federal and state agencies accept as proof, why should he have to present anything more to a bunch of malcontents who would then precede to say the long form was faked?

    Had Obama refused to release any birth certificate maybe that would indicate an attempt to try and hide something but he did. I imagine he is fighting the law suits (IF indeed he is) because he knows that releasing a long form wouldn’t satisfy them either and by reading some of the comments here they wouldn’t. What else would people want to see? And why haven’t previous president’s had to release any of those things?

    barga Reply:

    What he has released is valid, and i don’t see why he should show his full form. After all, the reason we dont see those is identity theft, so what small group can he show it to who would convince the rest of you that it is legit?

    timesr Reply:

    “Really, the better question is, “Why has Obama spent $800,000 fighting the release of the long form version of his birth certificate?””

    I would like to know how you figure that Obama has spent $800,000 (or even one penny, for that matter) keeping his vault copy birth certificate secret. At least one of Obama’s lawyers has said that he is working pro bono.

    “He promised transparency in his government and by not releasing it he appears to be hiding something.”

    Obama’s birth certificate has nothing to do with transparency in government; it is personal and rightly private, just as yours is for you.

  8. I’m also curious why Obama had his grandmother cremated even though his grandfather is buried on land. You’d think she would have been buried next to him, or at least nearby. Just explain to me why that wasn’t done.

    Wizcon Reply:

    Maybe it was her wishes. His mothers ashes were scattered.
    My mother was cremated and buried as is my fathers wish. My aunt was cremated and scattered in several different places she loved. My brother is creamted with some of his ashes in windchimes for his kids and family members. The rest of his ashes I am holding for when his kids are grown and can decide what they want. He just liked the windchime thing.
    Different strokes.
    Me I am going to be cremated and I am sending my daughters on some interesting hikes, nooks and crannies. It’ll take them about a week. No markers unless they want to put one somewhere.

    Wizcon Reply:

    Oh and Allesandro. When I was in my late 40′s, I established my end of life directives giving one of my children POA of my person and financial matters. She has clear instructions on my wishes should I be incapacitaed in any way and can not make decisions. There is even a point clearly stated when they are instructed to not resuscitate me. My Dr and Health care facility as well as all my kids and brother have a copy. See pg 425 of the current health bill

    Sage Reply:

    Maybe that’s what she wanted. And you know what, that’s a family decision and private and it’s really none of your business.

  9. AliSilver says:

    Well Alessandro,, None of us can ‘just explainto you why that wasn’t done”. Write up the pres and ask! Maybe you’ll go to the fishy email department to simmer ! ;)

  10. Red Faction says:

    The “long form” seems to be a Red Herring. All I ever wanted to see were his school transcripts and writings as the editor of the Harvard Law Review, his senior thesis which he had to write to get a degree, and then any opinions he eventually as rendered a lawyer. Any paper trail associated with the President is locked down as secure as the proverbial “long form” and I would like to know why. The philosophical and moral basis for his approach for our government is what I would like to understand, but politics always seems to trump details.

    timesr Reply:

    Lawyers, acting as lawyers, don’t render opinions, they argue cases.

    The so-called lock down on Obama’s paper trail is not exceptional, it is law – same for you as for him.

    If you want to understand Obama’s thinking, read his books.

    Red Faction Reply:

    Please quote what law as I am ignorant of such things and does this “law” cover state and US senators? I understand the “law” relative to a sitting president, but to have the “law” retroactively applied to his entire life is a “law” I am not familiar with. Ordinary citizens have had details of their lives splattered all over blogs and the mainstream media in the name of the First Amendment, which seems to be at odds with the intent of this “law”. My academic papers, thesis and dissertation for my degrees are available from the Universities I attended and are on file to be used for research by academics or others who need them. I’ve read Obama’s books, which read like a tabloid writer had ghost written the narrative. There is little there that gives any insight into the substance of the man.

    timesr Reply:

    The laws governing personal privacy are not exclusive to senators, congressmen, and the president, they apply to everyone.

    Relative to school records, the federal law is “Family Educational Rights and Privacy Act”. In addition, states may have their own laws regarding privacy.

    As a lawyer, it is his clients who are protected.

    If you think birth certificates are available to anyone, I suggest you try an experiment to test your theory; request a certified copy of a birth certificate from your local vital statistics office for another to whom you are not related – see what happens.

    I don’t know what kind of personal information all over the internet, you’re referring to so I can’t respond specifically. Some records are public such as criminal records, divorce records, etc. Further, a friend who did skip tracing said that ex-spouses and neighbors are an excellent source of information and are not governed by privacy laws.

    Red Faction Reply:

    Yes, FERPA was passed to protect privacy of academic records, however in the interest of transparency and full disclosure, these records for a public official should have been released. As far as the BC, you are correct and backed up by NISPOM section 2-200 subsection:

    2-208. Acceptable Proof of Citizenship
    a. For individuals born in the United States, a birth certificate is the primary and preferred means of citizenship verification. Acceptable certificates must show that the birth record was filed shortly after birth and it must be certified with the registrar’s signature. It must bear the raised, impressed, or multicolored seal of the registrar’s office. The only exception is if a State or other jurisdiction does not issue such seals as a matter of policy. Uncertified copies of birth certificates are not acceptable. A delayed birth certificate is one created when a record was filed more than one year after the date of birth. Such a certificate is acceptable if it shows that the report of birth was supported by acceptable secondary evidence of birth. Secondary evidence may include: baptismal or circumcision certificates, hospital birth records, or affidavits of persons having personal knowledge about the facts of birth. Other documentary evidence can be early census, school, or family bible records, newspaper files, or insurance papers. All documents submitted as evidence of birth in the U.S. shall be original or certified documents.
    b. If the individual claims citizenship by naturalization, a certificate of naturalization is acceptable proof of citizenship.
    c. If citizenship was acquired by birth abroad to a U.S. citizen parent or parents, the following are acceptable evidence:
    (1) A Certificate of Citizenship issued by the Department of Homeland Security, U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS) or its predecessor organization.
    (2) A Report of Birth Abroad of a Citizen of the United States of America
    (3) A Certificate of Birth.
    d. A passport, current or expired, is acceptable proof of citizenship.
    e. A Record of Military Processing-Armed Forces of the United States (DD Form 1966) is acceptable proof of citizenship, provided it reflects U.S. citizenship.

    Sage Reply:

    Well, unfortunately for you, you don’t get to decide what should and shouldn’t be released. I thought George Bush’s National Guard records should have been released, too, but they weren’t. I wonder why that was.

    Sage Reply:

    LOL I guess you think William Ayers wrote his books. You don’t want insight into the man’s substance you want dirt to dish.

    Red Faction Reply:

    Yes, unfortunate for me and those who want to know more about our Congressional rulers and our President. Same goes for Bush and continuing with the rest of the political criminals on both sides who are pandering to our most basic fears.

    barga Reply:

    you might want to know more, but he doesn’t have to give it to you.

    Sage Reply:

    Even if he did it would be labeled as fake, forged or written by a ghost writer.

  11. AliSilver says:

    Sage,,, IE! ? Is that one not compatible ?

    Sage Reply:

    I don’t know. I’m going to have to do some investigating. I can post the questions and answers here without the clickable expansion.

    Are you sure you are on the right page and not clicking on the screen shot on the first page of his blog?

    The page to go to is: http://whalertly.com/wordpress/anti-birthers-cove/

    I posted the claims and answers that we have so far in the original post here.

    Sage Reply:

    I think you were clicking on the screen shot I had posted here. Right?

  12. AliSilver says:

    Yes…….. I was LOL

    Sage Reply:

    No problem. I realize now the screen shot was misleading. Sorry.

    barga Reply:

    sorry, that ss will leave the home page eventually

    Sage Reply:

    LOL…I didn’t think about the screen shot confusing people. My bad.

    barga Reply:

    now that it is fixed, or so it seems, we should probably hope these posts leave our front page soon, to keep more from being confused

    Sage Reply:

    I put up a note to let people know it IS A SCREEN SHOT. I don’t think it will be confused again.

  13. timesr says:

    To Red Faction

    My grand mother used to say “you don’t really know someone until you’ve eaten a sack of salt with them”.

    When I was a child “Impeach Earl Warren” billboards were everywhere. He had been elected governor of California three times and was so popular that he was both the Democrat AND Republican candidate for governor in 1946 and the Republican vice presidential candidate in 1948.

    Then he was appointed Chief Justice of the Supreme Court. Democrats loved him; Republicans wanted him impeached.

    Earl Warren had a long public track record and still was an unknown when it came time to rule in civil rights issues that came before the court.

    Obama is the president. How he conducts himself in office will determine whether or not he is reelected. That is more relevant to discovering the inner working of his mind in 2009 than any paper he might have written as a 20-year old.

    Red Faction Reply:

    I am interested in the years 20 – 46 which may help explain his conduct as president in years 47 – 51. Had Candidate Obama been scrutinized in in front of Congress like Justice Sotomayor had been, we probably wouldn’t know what kind of a president he would be, but there would be a lot more information about his philosophy of governance and his goals for our country. But, elections are a political process and appointments are an executive process which is a strength of our system of government.

  14. barga says:

    I HAVE PROOF THAT OBAMA IS FROM KENYA!!!!!!!!!!!

    Obama's birth certificate

    (Note from Sage – I fixed it Barga)

Comments are closed.