Yes we can, but will we?
Most of us have witnessed at least one Barack Obama rally with the thousands of young people chanting yes we can. Much has been made of his supporters being the new Democrats and how they are energizing the party. But is all this enthusiasm really going to translate into Democratic votes from the young?
The old, bitter Hillary Clinton supporters have repeatedly warned that the young are fickle. They may show up to vote and they may not. Of course, their warnings have been made light of and the Obama supporters have ridiculed the very idea that their interest may wane after the excitement of the primaries.
Well, I think we can chalk one up for the wisdom of age. Polls show that yes, the under 30 voters are fickle.
And there is some evidence that the balance of enthusiasm has shifted and that young people — who seemed to turn out and vote for Obama in unusually high numbers in the primaries and caucuses — are no longer so enthusiastic about him.
The first bit of evidence comes from the July 10-13 ABC/Washington Post poll. It asked registered voters if they were “certain” to vote. Only 46 percent of voters under 30 said they were — substantially lower than the 66 percent who said so in the ABC/Washington Post poll taken Feb. 28-March 2, at a time when Obama was enjoying a string of primary and caucus victories and before the sermons of the Rev. Jeremiah Wright were circulated on youtube.com on March 13. The 46 percent of young voters saying in July they were certain to vote was far lower than the 79 percent of 65 and over voters who said they were. SOURCE
I personally expect the numbers to be even lower as The One continues to disappoint his more liberal leaning young supporters with votes like his FISA vote. Now that he has put off-shore drilling on the table I think even more of them will see that he isn’t as all about change as they thought and his rock star status will continue to diminish.
Meanwhile, the PUMA/Just Say No Deal movement is flourishing with media coverage and increasing numbers.
It appears that YES WE CAN isn’t the real issue, WILL WE is.
August 2nd, 2008 at 3:10 pm
We’re deep into the summer doldrums right now. Young (and old) people have things like summer vacations on their minds right now. Next week, it’ll be the Olympics. They’ll be a spike in interest during the conventions, and then it will slack off and start building again in late September/early October. Most people’s interests don’t stay stoked for 10 solid months. PUMAs interests are high right now, because they have this misguided notion that something miraculous is going to happen in Denver at the convention and Hillary will take her rightful place at the head of the assembly. And, when it doesn’t happen, there will be one last blast of anger from the PUMAs, once reality smacks them in the face. But by November, the smarter of the PUMA breed will choose to do the right thing. True supporters of Hillary and true Democrats would never be able to support what John McCain stands for.
August 2nd, 2008 at 3:22 pm
LOL…what does that have to do with people saying they aren’t certain they will vote?
It’s summer where I am, too, and I have other things going on but I’m still CERTAIN I will vote.
Have you seen me declare support for John McCain? No you haven’t. You keep trying to argue apples and oranges. And your arguments are so obviously straight out of the Obama talking points book that it’s laughable.
Oh, I’m not a true Democrat any longer. I was until this cluster of a primary. You might want to try some new and improved not so subtle insults because the old ones don’t apply and are really lame.
August 2nd, 2008 at 4:59 pm
I think that he will get about the same # of young voters as Kerry did. I dont think that most of his core support really care about his position shifts – or, yet, even know about them.
August 2nd, 2008 at 5:29 pm
Also, don’t know if you saw it yet, but according to the most recent Rasmussen poll, the number of people that identify themselves as Democrats is shrinking…
And I thought Obama was supposed to be bringing people into the party?
Teh Fail.
August 2nd, 2008 at 5:38 pm
It is not only the PUMA group who will choose not to vote for Obama, there are many others and…yes…we are mostly Dems.
There are other options:
write in for Hillary
Cynthia McKinney
Not vote for the presidential office in the GE
Wasted a vote on Gore
Wasted a vote on Kerry
Will not waste a vote this time around.
Obama is going down!
August 2nd, 2008 at 5:41 pm
Being a Democrat is an “insult”? If so, it wasn’t intended that way.
And with all due respect, you aren’t “sure” you’ll vote in November, nor am I. Either or both of us could go out and get run over by a bus (or get thrown under Obama’s bus, I know!) tomorrow. Just goes to show that, if you have the money, pollsters will develop any kind of poll you want.
No, you haven’t formally “declared” support for McCain, but you bust on Obama every opportunity you get. And Hillary’s candidacy is dead in the water. You going for Nader, Barr, or Paul?
August 2nd, 2008 at 5:58 pm
Nice try….I’m referring of course to the TRUE Hillary Clinton supporters comment and the TRUE Democrat comment. Contrary to what you seem to believe you aren’t the final authority on what constitutes a true Democrat or Hillary Clinton Supporters. Many people of the PUMA movement have worked for, donated to and supported the Democratic Party for years. The party left them, not the other way around.
I’m leaning toward Cynthia McKinney as of now.
You’re argument about those who aren’t declaring they are certain they will vote is really just sad. I guess in the time it took for the number to drop a lot of people just became aware of their mortality…are you friggin’ kidding me? Seriously, that was just plain silly.
August 2nd, 2008 at 5:58 pm
Texas Hill Country….I think I made a post on that. Maybe not, so thanks for the info!
August 2nd, 2008 at 6:24 pm
Oh, the unintentional (but absolutely hilarious) irony of a blind Obama apologist who chooses the name Diogenes and then deigns to lecture us about TRUE Democrats and TRUE supporters of Hillary. I know this is going to blow your mind just a little………. but it’s not about Hillary.
Pop quiz Einstein:
PUMA’s have 230+ affiliated blogs and organizations with at least 2.5 MILLION members. Do you really think carping on about them not being “true” Democrats is a winning strategy?
August 2nd, 2008 at 6:53 pm
Hoofy…it’s especially funny given how many of these PUMA’s are now registered as Independents.
August 2nd, 2008 at 7:10 pm
Well, zerO DID want to encourage a migration across the aisle…………….. ROFL………
August 2nd, 2008 at 7:35 pm
Regarding being a PUMA
For me it’s in part about refusing to validate the corrupt process that was rigged to nominate a candidate who doesn’t reflect our party’s values and who was able to get this far due to the machinations of those who seek greater power.
My refusal to validate this process isn’t a whim or a fad. What made Obama exciting and addictive to the young and passionate has greatly faded and the process continues. What makes this guy a PUMA hasn’t gone away. One way or the other I won’t let my party get hijacked.
August 2nd, 2008 at 8:36 pm
Well written.
I’m in the same position as you but the other way around. I have vowed not to vote for John McCain, although I have always been a Repubiblican.
If you vote for Cynthia McKinney, and I vote for Bob Barr, our two “wasted” votes will even out the chances for McCain and Obama.
August 2nd, 2008 at 8:39 pm
LOL….that sounds like a deal!
Thanks for commenting!
August 2nd, 2008 at 9:47 pm
At thisparticular point in time, PUMAs are somewhat deluded, but “no harm, no foul” at thispoint. You want to wail about Hillary, go ahead; not many people “feel your pain” but hey, go for it.
The issue is what do you do on November 4? Hillary and Obama are on one end of the political system, and John McCain is way on the other end. If you really care about issues, then the answer is clear: you vote for the candidate that best represents what your candidate stood for. If your only issue was getting a woman elected President, then you’re obviously free to vote for either Obama or McCain. Or are you? One wants to take away a woman’s right to choose, the other wants to defend it.
Keep talking about the woulda coulda shoulda aspects of the primary season, but when it’s over, THINK.
August 2nd, 2008 at 10:00 pm
Speaking of deluded, Obama is looking at Kaine as his VP. Kaine is anti-choice.
Any more insults you won’t to throw out? Go ahead, get them all out of your system at one time.
You are the one that needs to think….you seem to have drunk the Kool-Aid.
You obviously can’t read or have no reading comprehension skills whatsoever. It’s not about Hillary, it’s not about a woman president. Think. What issues have we really been discussing? It’s neither of those two issues. Come on, I’m sure you can think of it if you really put your mind to it.
August 3rd, 2008 at 1:32 am
I know, I know! It’s about how Barack Obama is a horrible excuse for a human being. It’s about how Barack Obama has done nothing at all in his lifetime, has no redeeming values, etc etc etc Those messages are pretty clear.
And it’s pretty clear where your sympathies lie. With Hillary. Every third post is about Hillary doing this, Hillary’s supporters doing that. You advertise PUMA jewelry, for chrissakes! But you now claim “it’s not about Hillary.” Uh huh. And McCain’s blogger goons aren’t talking about Obama being black, Obama being a Muslim, Obama not being a U.S. citizen, Obama having acquaintances we don’t like, etc etc etc.
Go ahead, continue the delusion for the next three weeks. We’ll see how you come out the other side, after the convention.
August 3rd, 2008 at 12:12 pm
It’s about Barack Obama being a fraud.
And yes, I was a Hillary Clinton supporter and yes I do support PUMA.
But mainly it’s about the out and out dishonesty from the Democratic Party. The sexism from the party and the DNC choosing the nominee, not the people.
I’ll be the same after the convention as I am now. I don’t expect the convention to change anything.
August 3rd, 2008 at 12:16 pm
Diogenes, Diogenes. Tsk tsk tsk. Get out of your own shadow, sweetie. Put away that script and pay attention.
The PUMA movement has become far less about Hillary than about the corrupt process that led to Obama’s presumptive nomination, including the disenfranchisement of millions of voters and the outright stealing of votes/delegates in Michigan. You know, the kind of tactics we’ve learned to expect from Republicans. You’re probably not familiar with the legal concept of “the fruit of the poison tree,” but it applies in politics as well as in law. The candidate who wins by corruption is himself (or herself) corrupt. A corrupt politician–and Obama is corrupt by definition–cannot be trusted. That apparently doesn’t bother you or your fellow bots.
It does bother us “deluded” PUMAs and other voters for whom Obama’s history of voter suppression, his reversals on his “principled” positions and his notion that POTUS is somehow an entry-level position are all flashing red lights.
I’ll be voting Green at the top of the ticket this year, and Democratic in any races where the candidate has not supported Obama. This will be the first election in my life that I have not supported the Dem candidate for President. If you think this has been an easy position for any of us to take, you’re a worse fool than you seem.
But then, we’re not really reading your words, are we? Just the script the Obama campaign provides for its uncritical minions
August 3rd, 2008 at 1:24 pm
okasha skatsi….well said. Thanks!
August 3rd, 2008 at 2:02 pm
My pleasure.
August 3rd, 2008 at 2:15 pm
“For me it’s in part about refusing to validate the corrupt process that was rigged to nominate a candidate who doesn’t reflect our party’s values and who was able to get this far due to the machinations of those who seek greater power.”
Nailed it.
August 4th, 2008 at 8:19 am
Wow, Mountain Sage! You got your own resident B0bot! Congratulations!
Diogenes dear
Remember when your beloved candidate said he was the post-partisan candidate? I think this is one he succeeded at! The democratic party became irrelevant, people start to overlook how loathsome the republican party is. For me, the difference used to be clear: Republicans were the ones who were stealing elections, democrats the victims. Thank god, your candidate changed all that! Now that both parties steal elections – there’s no moral high road you can shake at us. None. And with all the moves to the right – FISA, war etc – your candidate looks to me to the right of McCain anyway.
So before you put some outlandish choices for me: Cynthia McKinney
August 4th, 2008 at 8:48 am
LOL, Diogenes, right.
Shine that latern on Obama and ask him where he stands on campaign finance reform, FISA and Iraq, for starters.
You have a long way to go to find honesty, if you’re starting with the man who changes his mind and political positions on an hourly basis.
August 4th, 2008 at 1:38 pm
Diogenes is full of shit, but I would expect that from a bot.
Look, little boy. It’s like this: we have all voted for Democrat candidates who beat someone we liked better. We’ve all fallen in line. Carter, Gore, Kerry, etc.., but this is different. This time the DNC decided to not play fair. They gamed the system, lied, stole votes, disenfranchised folks, for what? For a guy who doesn’t even the jock to stand up for MoveOn.org or take a stand on FISA or abortion or a myriad of other issues. A DINO???
The phrase “all hat, no cattle” was bandied about by us Liberals quite a bit for the last 8 years about Bush. Now, do we have the character to stand up and say we don’t want a candidate who is every bit like Bush in that (and other) respects?
Hell, yeah! That’s why we’re PUMA’s. We want our party back from you ignorant fuckers. We want Howie gone, Donna exiled and you Blueshirts to learn a lesson or two in civic pride and voter responsibility. You guys waste your vote and our time.
Shut up and go back to your basement. The grown ups are home.